F O U R T H E Y E

bob wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:24 am

tys0n wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:20 am If they were serious about the whole seven thing Adam should have been playing a seven string guitar, what an amateur

i suck at math/hate it and all this sounds over the top. Danny seems to know his stuff when it comes to the arrangements and all that. Once Lateralus was being dissected and people starting thinking some of that related to the ''tree of life'' or whatever, i didnt buy into it. Apparently some friend of the bands mentioned the FIbonacci thing during the song 'Lateralus' and i guess it made sense but it wasnt on purpose as far as i remember. ya, good point, Adam really should be playing a 7 string guitar. Or one with 7 necks, fuck the ones with two! really go for it, haha

Thank God it's over the top! Tool's the only band that would go to such lengths in their compositions, and it makes their music so much more valuable and layered. Lateralus and 10,000 Days almost certainly are, on 1 level (I just say that because everything that Tool does is multi-layered) mapped over the 10/11 spheres of the Tree Of Life. I'm still working on Fear Inoculum, but the fact that the first song and title track is 620 seconds, which is the numerical value of the first sphere, is already a very good indicator, besides the fact that the angel of the first sphere is Metatron, the archangel form of Enoch, the 7th pre-flood patriarch, who's name is encoded into Inoculum through the green language by Maynard. If all of this seems confusing, it might be because I rushed out the video and barely, if any, included commentary.

ToolArchive wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:19 am
Thank God it's over the top! Tool's the only band that would go to such lengths in their compositions, and it makes their music so much more valuable and layered. Lateralus and 10,000 Days almost certainly are, on 1 level (I just say that because everything that Tool does is multi-layered) mapped over the 10/11 spheres of the Tree Of Life. I'm still working on Fear Inoculum, but the fact that the first song and title track is 620 seconds, which is the numerical value of the first sphere, is already a very good indicator, besides the fact that the angel of the first sphere is Metatron, the archangel form of Enoch, the 7th pre-flood patriarch, who's name is encoded into Inoculum through the green language by Maynard. If all of this seems confusing, it might be because I rushed out the video and barely, if any, included commentary.

Tool is not writing songs to conform to some random occult bullshit. It is very clear over their entire career that their approach to composition is creating songs with very natural rises and falls. They sit there and come up with ideas between one another that work then jam more pushing and pulling things apart until the songs feel complete. That is all there is too it. They take their parts, arrange them, alter them, rearrange them, etc.. etc... until they have a piece they are happy with. It would be more useful to talk about their actual use of musical techniques, like syncopation or dynamics.

Edit: Perhaps the closest their music has ever come to being purposefully based on numbers was Lateralus, but even that was just a riff they felt out, counted then came up with the idea after.

Believe me, I've studied the numbers in Southern France.

Boldizar wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:22 am

ToolArchive wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:19 am
Thank God it's over the top! Tool's the only band that would go to such lengths in their compositions, and it makes their music so much more valuable and layered. Lateralus and 10,000 Days almost certainly are, on 1 level (I just say that because everything that Tool does is multi-layered) mapped over the 10/11 spheres of the Tree Of Life. I'm still working on Fear Inoculum, but the fact that the first song and title track is 620 seconds, which is the numerical value of the first sphere, is already a very good indicator, besides the fact that the angel of the first sphere is Metatron, the archangel form of Enoch, the 7th pre-flood patriarch, who's name is encoded into Inoculum through the green language by Maynard. If all of this seems confusing, it might be because I rushed out the video and barely, if any, included commentary.

Tool is not writing songs to conform to some random occult bullshit. It is very clear over their entire career that their approach to composition is creating songs with very natural rises and falls. They sit there and come up with ideas between one another that work then jam more pushing and pulling things apart until the songs feel complete. That is all there is too it. They take their parts, arrange them, alter them, rearrange them, etc.. etc... until they have a piece they are happy with. It would be more useful to talk about their actual use of musical techniques, like syncopation or dynamics.

Edit: Perhaps the closest their music has ever come to being purposefully based on numbers was Lateralus, but even that was just a riff they felt out, counted then came up with the idea after.

Believe me, I've studied the numbers in Southern France.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. The vast majority of Tool fans are completely unaware to the pains that Tool goes through to weave music in accordance with sacred geometry, number and nature. It's always been that way. Most fans over decades have been so utterly unaware to the esoteric structure of Tool songs that they go as far as belittle the findings of a few who dared to look into the layers of the songs. Tool never talks about this stuff, ever. As a result, people think it's not there. This isn't random occult bullshit, it may appear as such to people who have no idea about what the occult, the Tree Of Life, geometry, hermeticism and alchemy are about. It's always been in Tool's music, and Fear Inoculum REALLY took it to the highest level of expression and attention to detail. Like I mentioned at the beginning of the video, the friction and harmony of Tool's work has always been the interplay between math and feelings, number and emotion, left brain and right brain. How there's people that would doubt that Tool wouldn't have drenched their music with extreme layering and attention to numerical harmony after 13 years of no released music is beyond me. I know most people don't care for and know about syncretic spirituality. But again, perhaps since I rushed the video and barely explained anything of the few things I did mention (and there's so much more I didn't) I shouldn't be surprised about people misunderstanding and relating it all to coincidence.

That's all well and good, but have you studied the numbers in Southern France?

Bobby Bottleservice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:39 pm

junior wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:10 pm Numbers are fun. I've always just counted all of their stuff in 4/4 and it works out eventually.

Junior, I think it makes sense. For example, the song Lateralus. There are several different time signatures, but they all come together as 4/4 at the end. Is this what you mean?

Something like that, but I was mostly kidding, anyway.
I rarely (if ever) count what they're playing. It's more of a "feel" thing.

ToolArchive wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:14 am

junior wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:10 pm Numbers are fun. I've always just counted all of their stuff in 4/4 and it works out eventually.

Hey junior, would you be able to remember if the A/Descending setlist name for the teaser version of descending actually stood for Ascending/Descending? Most fans seem to think that, but I've never seen proper proof.

Even 7empest's 10:34 moment can be counted as one long cycle of 21/4!

I don't remember if I ever knew the answer to that. It could have also been an "either/or" kind of a name where they just hadn't decided if it was "Ascending" or "Descending", or both. Or maybe just a way to differentiate it from the actual "Descending" ("Alternate"?). That "A/Descending" title started appearing quite a while before the album was finished, so who knows how far along they were with the real "Descending". I'd have to dig through some old notes to see if there was ever any mention of "Ascending", but I don't recall if there was.

tys0n wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:36 am That's all well and good, but have you studied the numbers in Southern France?

nxrm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:23 am

Fuck you maynard, love all women of a certain age everywhere!

liz wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:09 pm

nxrm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:23 am

Fuck you maynard, love all women of a certain age everywhere!

I wonder if Maynard got that $12 Patty Melt. Better be fucking good for that price

Numb3rs

13 is the eight number in Fibonacci. Thou shall not forget da zero.

ms2r wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:04 pm Numb3rs

13 is the eight number in Fibonacci. Thou shall not forget da zero.

0 is the zeroth number of the Fibonacci sequence. The first 1 is the first number. 13 is the 7th number, 21 the eighth.

ToolArchive, I appreciate that you put a LOT of effort into creating that video but it's bordering on delusional if you believe the band would deliberately include all of the stuff you have mentioned. Let me point out a few issues:

1) At one of the VIP sessions Adam Jones did back in 2013, a fan asked about Lateralus with regard to all the mathematical references and hidden meanings. Adam let the kid start asking his question but then politely interrupted him and said "Yeah, I'm sorry but a lot of that talk about hidden meanings is overblown" etc. As for the song Lateralus, Adam said a friend of the band pointed out the Fibonacci numbers AFTER they had come up with a few riffs, including the 9/8/7 thing and 987 being a Fibonacci number, and the band members went "Oh cool... that's kinda cool I guess." Maynard then had that in mind when writing the lyrics but as he said in a Joe Rogan podcast it was "kinda a dick joke" and nothing too serious.

2) Adam used this example above to convey that fans often overthink their music. He said he and Justin try to come up with cool new riffs to which Danny then plays the most completely unusual beat and they just go from there. Yes, Maynard might have built upon a few themes and included a few easter eggs or subtle references in the lyrics - like singing the word "mitosis" at 5:10 in Fear Inoculum, exactly halfway through the track's 10:20 length - but things like Adam and Justin playing 16 notes in that 22/8 reference you make and pi being the 16th letter of the Greek alphabet is going too far. If Adam was able to, he'd politely interrupt your video at that point and say "Yeah, I'm sorry but..."

3) The clearest example of the band deliberately incorporating the number 7 into their new album was Adam suggesting they name the album 'Volume 7' and that's about it. Having 7 pieces of music on the CD release and again including heptagrams is cool too. Adam just thought 'Volume 7' was a cool title because a lot of the songs are in 7 and, if you include Salival, the album would've been their 7th release (Opiate, Undertow, Aenima, Salival, Lateralus, 10,000 Days, Fear Inoculum).

4) Divisioned is not a word: https://wikidiff.com/divided/divisioned

5) Invincible being 12:44 is 12 minutes and 44 seconds. That's 764 seconds in total. But 764 is NOT divisible by 7. Are you going to argue back by saying "Yeah but 764 includes the number 7" or mention that 12 + 44 = 56 again and that 56 is a multiple of 7 or 56 is made up of a 5 and a 6 which is special etc.? I think you are trying to find meaning in something that may just be coincidental at best. Sorry.

6) There is no way the band noticed that from 2006 to 2019 is 13 years such that they would deliberately delay the release of an album to August 2019 just so they can make some subtle reference to the number 13. That's just nonsense. Sorry.

mattw wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:51 pm ToolArchive, I appreciate that you put a LOT of effort into creating that video but it's bordering on delusional if you believe the band would deliberately include all of the stuff you have mentioned. Let me point out a few issues:

1) At one of the VIP sessions Adam Jones did back in 2013, a fan asked about Lateralus with regard to all the mathematical references and hidden meanings. Adam let the kid start asking his question but then politely interrupted him and said "Yeah, I'm sorry but a lot of that talk about hidden meanings is overblown" etc. As for the song Lateralus, Adam said a friend of the band pointed out the Fibonacci numbers AFTER they had come up with a few riffs, including the 9/8/7 thing and 987 being a Fibonacci number, and the band members went "Oh cool... that's kinda cool I guess." Maynard then had that in mind when writing the lyrics but as he said in a Joe Rogan podcast it was "kinda a dick joke" and nothing too serious.

2) Adam used this example above to convey that fans often overthink their music. He said he and Justin try to come up with cool new riffs to which Danny then plays the most completely unusual beat and they just go from there. Yes, Maynard might have built upon a few themes and included a few easter eggs or subtle references in the lyrics - like singing the word "mitosis" at 5:10 in Fear Inoculum, exactly halfway through the track's 10:20 length - but things like Adam and Justin playing 16 notes in that 22/8 reference you make and pi being the 16th letter of the Greek alphabet is going too far. If Adam was able to, he'd politely interrupt your video at that point and say "Yeah, I'm sorry but..."

3) The clearest example of the band deliberately incorporating the number 7 into their new album was Adam suggesting they name the album 'Volume 7' and that's about it. Having 7 pieces of music on the CD release and again including heptagrams is cool too. Adam just thought 'Volume 7' was a cool title because a lot of the songs are in 7 and, if you include Salival, the album would've been their 7th release (Opiate, Undertow, Aenima, Salival, Lateralus, 10,000 Days, Fear Inoculum).

4) Divisioned is not a word: https://wikidiff.com/divided/divisioned

5) Invincible being 12:44 is 12 minutes and 44 seconds. That's 764 seconds in total. But 764 is NOT divisible by 7. Are you going to argue back by saying "Yeah but 764 includes the number 7" or mention that 12 + 44 = 56 again and that 56 is a multiple of 7 or 56 is made up of a 5 and a 6 which is special etc.? I think you are trying to find meaning in something that may just be coincidental at best. Sorry.

6) There is no way the band noticed that from 2006 to 2019 is 13 years such that they would deliberately delay the release of an album to August 2019 just so they can make some subtle reference to the number 13. That's just nonsense. Sorry.

1) It is true that a lot of fans, who don't really read and understand the stuff that Tool have utilized for decades in their music, come up with nonsense theories, and that's what Adam was probably referring to. I've never really thought the "holy gift" thing was intentional, though admittedly I've never looked into it. It's telling that after almost 20 years, I appear to be the first person ever to point out that the total numerical additive sum of the track lengths of Lateralus's CD sums up to 365, and I think I'm on the right track in understanding the significance of that in relation to the album's concept. The Fibonacci stuff in Lateralus is not diminished in its significance through Adam's statement that one of his associates mentioned that one of their early Lateralus riffs counts out in Fibonacci digits (9/8, 8/8, 7/8), in fact it's entirely logical that once they realized the significance of that original Justin riff, they built upon it and intentionally added more Phi associations. There's Fibonacci stuff in that song that still hasn't been generally known, even almost 2 decades later.

2) It's not that fans often overthink their music, and if anything they underthink their music, it is rather that most Tool fans have no idea about the extreme depth of layers to Tool's songs, and seem to go out of their way to downplay them and basically just imply that Tool are a good band and that's it. The mitosis moment in Fear Inoculum is intricately linked to the concept of polarity on the album, and there's plenty more of that that no one seems to have pointed out. The 22/8 moment, during which the band spells out Pi, is part of many moments on the album where Pi is invoked. It has to do with Squaring the Circle, which I suspect many don't even know what that means, since I didn't add explanation commentary to the video.

3) "The clearest example of the band deliberately incorporating the number 7 into their new album was Adam suggesting they name the album 'Volume 7' and that's about it." No. There's about a hundred things on the album that all tie in with 7, including the 360 additive numerical sum of the digital version, which points to the 360° of the square and circle, which is unified by 7 in Sacred Geometry.

4) That may be so for modern English.

5) The seconds count not being dividable by 7 has no relevance to anything. The track times of the album are finetuned to be numerically significant in a number of ways, one of them being 360. As I said in the video, 5 and 6 are extremely important numbers in classical geometry and sacred geometry, and fundamental numbers of polarity, which is the central theme to the album. Without trying to be unnecessarily mean at all, but I suspect you're not into hermeticism, or sacred geometry, or alchemy, which is tough to get into. Tool has been, for decades. And because most fans have no clue about that, they not only don't think it doesn't exist, like in Fear Inoculum, (because Tool never talk about any of that stuff ever), but also belittle the few fans that did try to go down the layers of their music and make sense of the number layer in particular.

6) You're again misunderstanding something. Neither did I say that, nor imply it, nor think it. I think they probably noticed a few years before 2019, say 2016, that their release could/would probably be a few more years away, and that 2019 conveniently is 13 years from 10,000 Days, which is the 7th Fibonacci number, and 7 is the most important number on the album. I don't think I mentioned anything about 13 yet in that first video, but there is a ton of it on the album.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to respond constructively to the issues I raised in my post. From a different perspective, their music and everything they do is a form of ART so you can interpret it however you like etc. I just think you are stretching too far with some of the references you have included in the video, that's all. If it leads to healthy discussion and someone discovers something new and enjoyable in TOOL's music or 'art' then that's cool.

I still think your Invincible example is the most obvious case of you overthinking or over-analyzing the band's work here. Having a 12:44 song and then adding 12 and 44 to get 56 so that you can get a 5 and 6 in there and 56 is divisible by 7 is too much of a stretch for me. Sorry. If someone asks Maynard "Did you deliberately put the word 'mitosis' at exactly the halfway point of the song Fear Inoculum?", he will probably admit "Yeah, I thought that was cool." But if you asked the band "Did you deliberately make Invincible 12 minutes and 44 seconds because 12 plus 44 equals 56?" and so on, I strongly believe they would just laugh and categorically say "No."

I'll type up my own observation of something cool I think the band and Maynard in particular has included in Descending but I'll do that later.

mattw wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:12 pm Thanks for taking the time and effort to respond constructively to the issues I raised in my post. From a different perspective, their music and everything they do is a form of ART so you can interpret it however you like etc. I just think you are stretching too far with some of the references you have included in the video, that's all. If it leads to healthy discussion and someone discovers something new and enjoyable in TOOL's music or 'art' then that's cool.

I still think your Invincible example is the most obvious case of you overthinking or over-analyzing the band's work here. Having a 12:44 song and then adding 12 and 44 to get 56 so that you can get a 5 and 6 in there and 56 is divisible by 7 is too much of a stretch for me. Sorry. If someone asks Maynard "Did you deliberately put the word 'mitosis' at exactly the halfway point of the song Fear Inoculum?", he will probably admit "Yeah, I thought that was cool." But if you asked the band "Did you deliberately make Invincible 12 minutes and 44 seconds because 12 plus 44 equals 56?" and so on, I strongly believe they would just laugh and categorically say "No."

I'll type up my own observation of something cool I think the band and Maynard in particular has included in Descending but I'll do that later.

Well, there's not much else to say other than what I already said, its not like I set out to find particular correlations, they just start to jump out at you once you realize that a fundamental layer to Fear Inoculum is number harmony. Invincible being exactly 12:44 does have to do with the fact that every song was mapped out bar by bar, cycle by cycle, in order to reach certain number correlations, including the main obvious one of numerically adding up all the track lengths, which makes 360. Invincible being 56 is not a coincidence. I'm reiterating, but 5 and 6 are polar numbers, and represent core duality of male and female, microcosm and macrocosm, and that's what a huge chunk of Fear Inoculum is about, unification of opposites, monad through polarity. Adam's main chuggity chug chug chuggity chug chug chug riff in Invincible is spelling out the 5/6 correlation, since he's playing 5 + 6 in 7/8, and 22 in 7/4, and that relates to the Squaring of the Circle, which is part of the unity of opposites concept in the album. Perhaps they didn't set out to make a song a particular length (though that wouldn't be impossible for them), but rather, during finalization, settled on lengths and numbers that are harmonious to the concepts of 7, balance and harmony, of which 56 (5 & 6) s a central part. It's in particular in Invincible where Adam is constantly spelling out 7s and multiple of 7s.

Okay, I get all of that, but I still think the 12 + 44 = 56 thing is too much of a stretch or jump here. I don't think the band would deliberately make the track run to 12 mins 44 seconds just so they could have 12 + 44 = 56 and think it was cool. In fact, even if you are correct and they deliberately did choose to let the song stop at 12:44 for that exact reason, it's actually pretty lame. Letting the song run to 12 mins 43 seconds would make more sense as the track would be 763 seconds long and 763 is divisible by 7. That's simple and clean. If you want 5 and 6 included somewhere, just let the track run to 12:56 and stop it there etc.

I think fans often fall for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Your line "once you realize that a fundamental layer to Fear Inoculum is number harmony" in your last post points towards confirmation bias here; I think you are looking for evidence that supports your prior beliefs.

Number harmony? How about changing perspectives, changing as a person, getting older or embracing who you are as fundamental themes?

junior wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:36 am

Bobby Bottleservice wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:39 pm

junior wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:10 pm Numbers are fun. I've always just counted all of their stuff in 4/4 and it works out eventually.

Junior, I think it makes sense. For example, the song Lateralus. There are several different time signatures, but they all come together as 4/4 at the end. Is this what you mean?

Something like that, but I was mostly kidding, anyway.
I rarely (if ever) count what they're playing. It's more of a "feel" thing.

Okay, jokes on me Junior! I understand that you "feel" the music because you have been with this band for more than 2 decades (96 or 98?, sorry, do not think these are common to the fibonacci sequence). When I listen to this band, it just flows - but when I really listen to them (on my headphones and no interruptions) I hear all the different polyrhythms. Ok, I think I am sounding like I took some acid. I'll shut the fuck up.

mattw wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:56 pm Okay, I get all of that, but I still think the 12 + 44 = 56 thing is too much of a stretch or jump here. I don't think the band would deliberately make the track run to 12 mins 44 seconds just so they could have 12 + 44 = 56 and think it was cool. In fact, even if you are correct and they deliberately did choose to let the song stop at 12:44 for that exact reason, it's actually pretty lame. Letting the song run to 12 mins 43 seconds would make more sense as the track would be 763 seconds long and 763 is divisible by 7. That's simple and clean. If you want 5 and 6 included somewhere, just let the track run to 12:56 and stop it there etc.

I think fans often fall for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Your line "once you realize that a fundamental layer to Fear Inoculum is number harmony" in your last post points towards confirmation bias here; I think you are looking for evidence that supports your prior beliefs.

Number harmony? How about changing perspectives, changing as a person, getting older or embracing who you are as fundamental themes?

I do think the band did exactly that, make the track length be exactly 12:44 in the final stages of the song writing, because it is harmonious to the larger concepts. The seconds count does in fact matter, and 764 is more related to the concepts than another value, one of the reasons being 17. I don't want to go into that right now, but it's one of the numbers that pop up a lot. The sequence I mentioned at the beginning of the video is 3, 7, 11, 17, 21, 33 & 34, 58 & 59. Saying that Tool spent a ton of time on number harmony is not to be misunderstood as the only significance to the songs. It is one layer, and Tool have always multilayered their songs. You mention getting older and embrace, that's one of the lyrical contents by Maynard. Part of the album's centrality with polarity is acceptance of the negative, balancing, the yin & yang, and that's where number pairs like 5 & 6 come into play, which represent duality. Their unification, the monad, comes from binding them together, 11. Unification of opposites as a tool for growth and acceptance, and ultimately, health.

Funnily enough, Tool actually have a song about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnlhVVwBfew

Moving swiftly along... how about that election fraud?

Yeah but I was the one who brought up 764 seconds in my posts and now YOU are using the number I introduced to confirm your bias here. Saying 764 is important because 7 + 6 + 4 = 17 is a classic example of confirmation bias; you are looking for things to fit your prior beliefs.

There is no way the band deliberately chose 12 mins 44 seconds for the multiple reasons you have now mentioned. You're trying to find meaning in everything here. Sorry.

mattw wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:49 pm Yeah but I was the one who brought up 764 seconds in my posts and now YOU are using the number I introduced to confirm your bias here. Saying 764 is important because 7 + 6 + 4 = 17 is a classic example of confirmation bias; you are looking for things to fit your prior beliefs.

There is no way the band deliberately chose 12 mins 44 seconds for the multiple reasons you have now mentioned. You're trying to find meaning in everything here. Sorry.

I'm sorry but please don't assume things about me, I did not mention 764 because you said it. I have a text file on Fear Inoculum that's about a thousand lines long, where I've noted down everything I could find and everything to potentially go after, studying, research, etc, including ALL the seconds counts, including 764. The stuff I mentioned in the video is about a quarter of everything I've found so far, and some of the best stuff is still to come. That 764 adds up to 17 is a minor, but not insignificant, piece of number information. 17 is one of the numbers in the sequence that does in fact appear all over the album, it is also one of the most prevalent intervals between song sections, and features massively in Fear Inoculum and 7empest. This has nothing to do with confirmation bias, and you presume that you've heard enough about the layers of the album from my first, very rushed, video, to assume it is so, but trust me, I've barely scratched the surface. And yes, there is a way the band deliberately chose 12:44 as the final track length of Invincible, just as they chose all the other final track lengths to be the times they are, not only to express certain core Fear Inoculum numbers through numerical addition or digital root reduction, but in particular to have them all add up to 360 within the 10 track digital version, which expresses completion, culmination, full circle, the internal degrees of the squaring of the circle and 7.

Exactly. I brought up 764 seconds. I never said anything about 7 + 6 + 4 = 17. You were the one who took my 764 contribution and pointed out the 7 + 6 + 4 thing.

You are delusional.

If Adam Jones was available right now, he'd stop you and say "Yeah, I'm sorry but..."

You should have presented your video by saying "Here are some cool things I've noticed" rather than implying these were deliberate choices by the band.

mattw wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:04 pm Exactly. I brought up 764 seconds. I never said anything about 7 + 6 + 4 = 17. You were the one who took my 764 contribution and pointed out the 7 + 6+ 4 thing.

You are delusional.

I responded to you saying 764 seconds was somehow "bad" and should have been another number value. Your previous post implied I only mentioned the significance of 17 because you mentioned 764 seconds, and that this was an example of me freely associating numbers through confirmation bias. I understand that me withholding all the info I have on all of this may add to people misunderstanding and completely underestimating the honestly unbelievable depth that Tool reached with this album, but having the completely unjustifiable arrogance to assume you know more about this than I do, after I've been literally researching and studying Fear Inoculum and it's appendant topics since February 2020 in my spare time, is not reason enough to call someone delusional and only seeing what they want to see, especially if I haven't even put half of what I've discovered about this absurdly amazing album out yet.

A person that barely knows what this subject is all about, probably has never studied the same esoteric arcana that Tool have been using and expressing for decades in their music, lyrics and artwork, and presumes to have a firm understanding of the questions solely based on my short introductory attempt at beginning to explain the mystery of Fear Inoculum, which then calls the person that barely scratched the surface on this album delusional, is delusional about their own lack of understanding. Which is not something I'm holding against you, it takes a certain kind of person to be persistent and (perhaps fanatically) dedicated to actually trying to see if the mystery of Fear Inoculum can be understood. And it can be understood, through number, sacred geometry, and a good understanding of how polarity and the monad can be expressed in audio form.

I've noticed that it is a persistent aspect of Tool fans to downplay the layering that Tool puts into their music, because they don't know its there, and don't go looking for it, and when someone does find out about the ever present geometry that Tool puts into their music through meaningful number expression, it's downplayed as nonsense, coincidence, random association. If anything, it's "underthinking".

mattw wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:04 pm You should have presented your video by saying "Here are some cool things I've noticed" rather than implying these were deliberate choices by the band.

Perfect!