F O U R T H E Y E

Kittaan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:54 am Boldone

I’ve had my own music mastered by a pro mastering engineer (he‘s teaching at a university as well) with me attending the sessions. Sometimes the peak clipping is just a trade-off for a certain kind of sound (the music sounds better overall when it‘s „hotter“, so a tiny bit of distortion is being tolerated)

In the end, mastering is a kind of creative process as well, and the most important measuring instruments are the engineers ears.

I am not sure how these things work entirely but I am going to experiment running the files through fruity loops with a limiter.

Kittaan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:54 am @ Norm and Boldone - both of your last posts above are based on well stated positions, reasoned, supported and very importantly respectful and considerate of the other’s experience. Despite being on different sides of your discussion.

Thanks.

Yeah - FFS people, this is the internet - what gives?

Boldizar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:39 am No worries. There is definitely distortion in Pneuma (Bass verse, heavy end section of bridge a bit I think), Tempest (Last Maynard part), and Invincible (Bass solo). People definitely aren't making it up. 10,000 Days did not have these issues. But this has nothing to do with how I expect it to sound. This is a general audio quality issue. Sometimes it is harder to notice to others. The most noticeable is probably the Invincible bass solo although at times you probably think its the bass effect. Overall it almost sounds like there are these large, slow moving waves in the mix and over the course of songs the treble gets higher and higher in parts (and I mean ever so slightly, like the sound is slowly sandwiched into a higher range), which is where the distortion occurs.

I'd add that I can hear this across multiple releases and speakers as well. CD, 24bit, MP3, WAV (from TB order).

Ah, I misinterpreted your observations about the distortion with the complaints I've read about "clipping." That's what I get for being so wound up.

It would definitely be interesting to hear the band, Joe Barresi, or Bob Ludwig discuss the recording, mixing, and mastering process to get a better idea of what they may have been aiming for, any issues they encountered during the process, and how they worked through them.

You're definitely listening to the highest quality audio there, and hopefully in time those sections just become part of the music and don't adversely affect your appreciation/enjoyment too much.

Cheers! \m/

The recording problems don't really bother me, i kinda assume it's part of the aesthetic.

Bring on the live season! I've never really listened that much to the studio version of Tool, the live stuff is much better imo. Quick heads-up regarding tooldriveproject - they've added a player to their site, so one can listen to a MP3 version prior to downloading the FLAC's. Check it out: https://tooldriveproject.net/Details/?ID=2502

I tried running Invincible through a limiter, but like I thought, the actual file they put out is leveled well and such, the distortion occurs in the mix below the main channel. Perhaps its only on the bass track, I don't know. I highly doubt this was intended for effect. Maybe they made a trade off in order to use tape still and there was some issues with age etc...

Boldizar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:45 am I tried running Invincible through a limiter, but like I thought, the actual file they put out is leveled well and such, the distortion occurs in the mix below the main channel. Perhaps its only on the bass track, I don't know. I highly doubt this was intended for effect. Maybe they made a trade off in order to use tape still and there was some issues with age etc...

Hey BoldOne, did you perchance listen to Justin’s Ernie Ball interview? He discusses the bass dirty channel vs clean channel mix down strategy they employed, and that they sometimes made the choice to go well into the red to get the effect they wanted or to cut through the other instruments. Very interesting.

In general, the choices made in a final mix and then mastering are arbitrary, and more of an art than a science. With a band like Tool, and engineers the caliber they employ, I just look at it as their art, their choice. It sounds damn good to me. DAMN good.

Kittaan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:05 am

Boldizar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:45 am I tried running Invincible through a limiter, but like I thought, the actual file they put out is leveled well and such, the distortion occurs in the mix below the main channel. Perhaps its only on the bass track, I don't know. I highly doubt this was intended for effect. Maybe they made a trade off in order to use tape still and there was some issues with age etc...

Hey BoldOne,

NOWI GET IT. I thought it was "Bol-dough-knee" the first time.

No, I don't recall that part of the interview at all. That is interesting, but I wonder why then they cut down the distortion in his tone during the hits in Descending. They did the same thing with Jambi's intro. His live tone is this face melting, ripping shit that sounds incredible, but it is much softer on the album. I had figured it had to do with being unable to capture that tone and have it not over-distort a recording. I also don't understand why they would let it go into the red since, as evidenced, that just distorts speakers and won't necessarily add better presence in the mix. That is like "turning it up to 11" instead of making 10 louder kind of logic. Oh well lol. I guess that answers my questions.

My WOW-HD order just arrived, didnt even have to pay customs

Boldizar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:45 am I tried running Invincible through a limiter, but like I thought, the actual file they put out is leveled well and such, the distortion occurs in the mix below the main channel. Perhaps its only on the bass track, I don't know. I highly doubt this was intended for effect. Maybe they made a trade off in order to use tape still and there was some issues with age etc...

i heard someone else say part of FI was a ''Bob Ludwig Special'' i guess hes known for over compressing certain things so maybe thats the distortion your hearing. more so Pneuma and Tempest i think they said..Pneuma for sure. during the quite parts at the beginning you can even hear static. i highly doubt that was on purpose. whatever they did, they did it well but like u said maybe there was some things that they couldnt avoid in order to get the sound it has. it feels nice to listen to so its not the 'loudness wars'' type of compression which is the destroyer of music!

rshforgothispw wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:26 pm

fractal-machine wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:50 pm

ziggy23 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:47 am Looks like they printed different back covers for the deluxe CD edition:

https://i.imgur.com/IwYlPsI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZOxzOvc.jpg

Now I wonder which one I'll get from amazon.

This! From my research, it looks like there are actually 3 variants. I've purchased four copies in search of all of them, but just can't find the third variant or the one that's labeled as variant "C" also known as the fractal. I have the variants "A" and "B". I haven't received my fourth one yet, so I'm hoping I can complete them.
Has anyone else tried to collect all the variants?
Edit: doh! Just went back and saw others asking the same!

So I have the Danny Carey one you got any trades to offer? Not really looking to let it go but if there’s something really convincing we could maybe do a swap.

I have a bunch, 8 total since I ordered 3 at 5 am on Aug 7th and also have a Amoeba records on Haight St. in San Francisco, they still get a few in. I have all 3 variants. Also has anyone noticed that the album comes with two different textures?

San Jose Shark wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:36 pm

rshforgothispw wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:26 pm

fractal-machine wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:50 pm

This! From my research, it looks like there are actually 3 variants. I've purchased four copies in search of all of them, but just can't find the third variant or the one that's labeled as variant "C" also known as the fractal. I have the variants "A" and "B". I haven't received my fourth one yet, so I'm hoping I can complete them.
Has anyone else tried to collect all the variants?
Edit: doh! Just went back and saw others asking the same!

So I have the Danny Carey one you got any trades to offer? Not really looking to let it go but if there’s something really convincing we could maybe do a swap.

I have a bunch, 8 total since I ordered 3 at 5 am on Aug 7th and also have a Amoeba records on Haight St. in San Francisco, they still get a few in. I have all 3 variants. Also has anyone noticed that the album comes with two different textures?

Most people have one copy if they were able to get one at all.

At the end of the day the music is out there, albums aren't pokemon anymore, you don't have to catch them all.

People can enjoy their eventual landfill.

Two weeks out...yep 10/10

M0G wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:09 pm Two weeks out...yep 10/10

Any particular pieces, songs, sections, stick out to you?

This album just gets better and better with each listen. The lengths of the songs fade to the background once you know all the pieces. They are very cohesive. Yes some songs could be shorter, but they are also perfect exactly as they are.

I go back and forth on my favorites. I think culling voices probably gets listened to least often for me, but when I do listen to it I wonder why. It is 10/10 as well.

My top tracks (today)
Descending
7empest
Pneuma

xZ1mM3r wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:32 am

M0G wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:09 pm Two weeks out...yep 10/10

Any particular pieces, songs, sections, stick out to you?

This album just gets better and better with each listen. The lengths of the songs fade to the background once you know all the pieces. They are very cohesive. Yes some songs could be shorter, but they are also perfect exactly as they are.

I go back and forth on my favorites. I think culling voices probably gets listened to least often for me, but when I do listen to it I wonder why. It is 10/10 as well.

My top tracks (today)
Descending
7empest
Pneuma

Nothing in particular sticks out in terms of any one thing. I rarely listen to just one song this is very much a headphone album that is meant to be listened, at least for me, from beginning to end. It is complex and highly instrumental. The song writing is mature and feels like a natural evolution for the band. It is the album I hoped they would make but never imagined we would actually get. Every member of the band is at the top of their game. Maynard is excellent and also does a superb job of understanding when not to sing. I know this was a disappointment for some, but Maynard singing a lot on these tracks wouldn't work. He hit the sweet spot on each track and allowed the music to shine.

This is the best I have ever heard Adam. His work on 7empest is quite possibly the best thing he has ever done on guitar with Tool. Justin is fantastic I am constantly blown away by the things he comes up with and his approach to playing bass. He might be the star of the show on this album.

As for Danny I am kind of blown away a guy not too far away from 60 can lay down his best leg work he has ever done. His double bass on this album is fucking incredible. It would be easy to say Danny is the star because what he does behind that kit elevates everything Tool does musically. Bottom line all of these guys delivered. They didn't make a part two here. They didn't rehash old ideas and they didn't compromise. This isn't an album full of catchy riffs and the music is not easily digestible. These are slow burn tracks (except for 7empest) that require patience and challenge the listener.

I love this album. 13 years and a fuck ton of bullshit and excuses but ultimately the Tool fellas got the last laugh. You know how critical I have been of Tool. If this album had been lacking I would have hammered it. They delivered. Fear Inoculum IS a masterpiece.

This is a post from the future.
The year is 2049.
Fear Inoculum is still 10/10.

M0G wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:01 pm

xZ1mM3r wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:32 am

M0G wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:09 pm Two weeks out...yep 10/10

Any particular pieces, songs, sections, stick out to you?

This album just gets better and better with each listen. The lengths of the songs fade to the background once you know all the pieces. They are very cohesive. Yes some songs could be shorter, but they are also perfect exactly as they are.

I go back and forth on my favorites. I think culling voices probably gets listened to least often for me, but when I do listen to it I wonder why. It is 10/10 as well.

My top tracks (today)
Descending
7empest
Pneuma

Nothing in particular sticks out in terms of any one thing. I rarely listen to just one song this is very much a headphone album that is meant to be listened, at least for me, from beginning to end. It is complex and highly instrumental. The song writing is mature is feels like a natural evolution for the band. It is the album I hoped they would make but never imagined we would actually get. Every member of the band is at the top of their game. Maynard is excellent and also does a superb job of understanding when not to sing. I know this was a disappointment for some, but Maynard singing a lot on these tracks wouldn't work. He hit the sweet spot on each track and allowed the music to shine.

This is the best I have ever heard Adam. His work on 7empest is quite possibly the best thing he has ever done on guitar with Tool. Justin is fantastic I am constantly blown away by the things he comes up with and his approach to playing bass. He might be the star of the show on this album.

As for Danny I am kind of blown away a guy not too far away from 60 can lay down his best leg work he has ever done. His double bass on this album is fucking incredible. It would be easy to say Danny is the star because what he does behind that kit elevates everything Tool does musically. Bottom line all of these guys delivered. They didn't make a part two here. They didn't rehash old ideas and they didn't compromise. This isn't an album full of catchy riffs and the music is not easily digestible. These are slow burn tracks (except for 7empest) that require patience and challenge the listener.

I love this album. 13 years and a fuck ton of bullshit and excuses but ultimately the Tool fellas got the last laugh. You know how critical I have been of Tool. If this album had been lacking I would have hammered it. They delivered. Fear Inoculum IS a masterpiece.

Well said Mog. 13 years and they banged out their best album. Sounds good to me!

Greetings fellow TOOL fans.

New forum member here hailing from FInland. Been listening to TOOL for some 20 years now, but never really posted anything about them anywhere online. The usual pondering and analyzing was done long ago in a small group of adolescents trying to get a hang of what's going on, in their lives and on the albums. And here I am, 43 years and still looking for some answers. This time I thought I'd do it a little different though: the life has taken it's turn and gotten busy-middle-aged-parental-chaos-kinda-mess and there really is no time for sitting down with the few friends that listen to TOOL and just... you know, dive deeper. Therefore I need the "swarm-intelligence" to my rescue with the means of social media, forums, blogs and sh*t. Tell you right off the bat: I'm clueless as a blogger, as a IG'er and whatnot, so bare with me...

Anyway I got this vision and thought I should make it to reality. Hope you like what I'm up to, but no need really. Still if you can spare a few moments, read a few sentences, maybe a whole blog posting or two, send a like, a comment, criticism, encouragement, whatever. I will be grateful. It's really a drag not to get a chance to converse anymore about the things that keep spiraling in your mind... forever and ever.

https://daddythinks.wordpress.com/2019/ ... e-prelude/

DADDY THINKS: OF MUSIC – THE PRELUDE

Encouragement

one of the most precious things one can give to another. Luckily I got encouraging people around me and because of the kind words of my friend Laura https://instagram.com/ljcshutter at https://www.rebel1017.com/through-the-lens-with-laura/ I started to think that maybe I might have something to give out to the people while deboning musical experience to words and mental images and so I decided to carry on with a recent idea and see how I’d manage.

The idea was born from a piece of text I wrote about the first single from the new TOOL album: Fear Inoculum. Now that I’ve spent some time trying to get inside the album itself (and failing miserably most of the time) I got this vision about a project I have never done before: to reflect the musical and lyrical content, the mental images evoked by the music and writing about them in public.

Experiencing music is a familiar thing for me, per se. Musical vibes have been a big part of my life through teenage and adolescence. They’ve been experienced alone and with friends in varying states of mind and body. At some point music nearly disappeared from my life but the last few years have been quite active. I have also been an amateur musician, a vocalist and a lightweight lyrist, a self-educated rookie without any real high or low musical education. In any case, I think I have at least some understanding of how music is made and of its structure, so what the hell, I’ll give it a try!

While very much current right now in alt-proge-rock scene I will start by writing about the Fear Inoculum album. One of my friends said quite aptly: “This is not an album of hits” so there might not be any blockbusting radio hits (lol that’d be the day!) or individual stars: Fear Inoculum is best experienced in its entirety as an interesting nexus of sounds and moods tangled together. That said, I still came to the conclusion that I would try to analyze the album and my thoughts one piece at a time. The task of wrestling the whole epic was too daunting at this point and I was afraid I would never have discovered the common thread carrying the narrative through the album… that or it could have taken me some 13 years. Maybe we’ll get to that later if the big picture is crystallized.

Now, it is TOOL I’m talking about after all so a little disclaimer is in place:

The interpretations I do are absolutely not meant as an exhaustive truth about the art, thoughts, messages or meanings weaved into the music of TOOL. My interpretations rest mostly on my personal experiences and thoughts of being a human and living a human life. I am not a professional music reviewer and my texts are not meant to be reviews, though I might also write a thing or two about the technical performance etc. Also, english is not my native language, so I might not make any sense from time to time. It is not always easy to get your thoughts through and understood when the language, the proverbs, the grammar and the structure are more or less alien. Sometimes it’s hard enough with your native language, right?

So, please don’t lynch me, but disagree if you feel so and if you do, say it out loud and tell me why. This also applies if you happen to like or agree with something I write. Correct, encourage, criticize. My goal is to organize my thoughts, reflect the music with fellow listeners and hopefully learn something new about music, life and existence.

<3
Daddy Thinks

Blog: https://daddythinks.wordpress.com
FB: https://www.facebook.com/daddythinks/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/daddythinks1/


Edit: links should be fixed and visible now. Appologies for the inconvenience

I am loving the feeling I getduring 'invincible".... just as maynard stops his part with danny on the synth , and the synth continues with adam & Justin , then that crash!!! magic.

Mog 2 !!!!

Guys, I wrote some totally cool, amazing, and thoughtful things. Please come and read them. You can do so by purchasing items from my Amazon Wishlist. If you disagree with my thoughts, purchase something from my Amazon Wishlist and leave a comment.

Boldizar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:00 am Guys, I wrote some totally cool, amazing, and thoughtful things. Please come and read them. You can do so by purchasing items from my Amazon Wishlist. If you disagree with my thoughts, purchase something from my Amazon Wishlist and leave a comment.

Well said Boldizar. I know what you mean. I'm from Finland you know, and we are basicly the most cynical people this ball rock has ever carried on it. I'm sorry to disappoint you though, I don't sell anything. Wordpress might try to, since I'm on a free account for now, but I think you can manage some adds with a blocker, yes?

Luv Daddy Thinks