Tool & Justin feature in meaningless polls

Here at Fourtheye we love robust debates, and nothing triggers mass debates like internet polls.  In this weeks edition we have two polls.

The first is from Music Radar where readers have voted on the Top 25 bass lines of all timeJustin’s work in Schism comes in at 10th position.  Here’s the whole list:

  1. Hysteria – Muse (Chris Wolstenholme)
  2. YYZ – Rush (Geddy Lee)
  3. Another One Bites The Dust – Queen (John Deacon)
  4. Under Pressure – Queen & David Bowie (John Deacon)
  5. Money – Pink Floyd (Roger Waters)
  6. Orion – Metallica (Cliff Burton)
  7. Billie Jean – Michael Jackson (Louis Johnson)
  8. Roundabout – Yes (Chris Squire)
  9. My Generation – The Who (John Entwistle)
  10. Schism – Tool (Justin Chancellor)
  11. Give It Away – Red Hot Chili Peppers (Flea)
  12. The Lemon Song – Led Zeppelin (John Paul Jones)
  13. Taxman – The Beatles (Paul McCartney)
  14. Good Times – Chic (Bernard Edwards)
  15. The Chicken – Jaco Pastorius
  16. Walk On The Wild Side – Lou Reed (Herbie Flowers)
  17. What’s Going On – Marvin Gaye (James Jamerson)
  18. Stand By Me – Ben E King (Wendell Marshall)
  19. The Guns Of Brixton – The Clash (Paul Simonon)
  20. Sweet Emotion – Aerosmith (Tom Hamilton)
  21. Super Freak – Rick James (Oscar Alston)
  22. Pusherman – Curtis Mayfield (Joseph ‘Lucky’ Scott)
  23. These Boots Are Made For Walkin’ – Nancy Sinatra (Carol Kaye)
  24. In The Midnight Hour – Wilson Pickett (Donald ‘Duck’ Dunn)
  25. Make It Funky – James Brown (Fred Thomas)

Some excellent basslines there.  I’m sure #1 will cause lots angst amongst you readers, so lets get it out in the open.

Tool feature in the next poll, which happens to be Rolling Stone’s readers Top 10 Metal Bands of All Time.  While I’m not sure Tool are a metal band strictly speaking, they managed to take the 10th position:

  1. Metallica
  2. Dream Theatre
  3. Black Sabbath
  4. Iron Maiden
  5. Slayer
  6. Megadeth
  7. Judas Priest
  8. Led Zeppelin
  9. Pantera
  10. Tool

Dream Theatre must have a lot of Rolling Stone reading fans, but at least RS readers have the good taste not to include Slipknot.

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Tyson
Tyson
8 years ago

Led Zeppelin are metal now?

Lizbet
Lizbet
8 years ago

Hahaha no angst here, suck it up Muse haters. I don’t know that Led Zep can be called metal either but I identify as a metal fan so I’m satisfied with their inclusion in the genre.

BillyDWannaB
BillyDWannaB
8 years ago

Works for me…. I just like to see the guys included.  They deserve more props than they get.

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

Dream Theatre? I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. That list sucks balls. Most of the bands on that list are not metal.

Muse? What a fucking joke. And how can anyone make a list of top bass performances and exclude Sean Malone. Yet again further confirmation that most people know jack shit about music.

ilikecheese
ilikecheese
8 years ago

Cleary too much bullshit in either list to encapsulate the scope of it all.

OK, one note and that is too see Dream Theatre ahead of ANY of those bands is laughable, LAUGHABLE, I SAY, LAUGHABLE! And ya, tool shouldn’t even be on the list but DT more metal than Slayer or Sabbath? that’s fucking stupid

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8 years ago

Les Zeppelin can fit in just about any catagory.

ilikecheese
ilikecheese
8 years ago

Stupid gay meaningless pools

Ns1
Ns1
8 years ago

decent metal list, terrible basslines list

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 1 minute ago  »  Mog – 1 minute ago  » Most of the bands on that list are not metal. Most is a bit of an exaggeration, 6 out of those 10 I’d say are pretty clearly metal. Tool, DT & Sabbath all at least incorporate elements of metal in their work. Zeppelin is more the odd one out to me, but I guess they tend to be viewed as a heavy influence on metal. Iron Maiden and Judas Priest amount to little more than pop rock. Megadeth is an overrated 80s hair band. Old Metallica was metal up… Read more »

limeygringo
limeygringo
8 years ago

admin – 4 minutes ago  »  Mog – 1 minute ago  » Most of the bands on that list are not metal. Most is a bit of an exaggeration, 6 out of those 10 I’d say are pretty clearly metal. Tool, DT & Sabbath all at least incorporate elements of metal in their work. Zeppelin is more the odd one out to me, but I guess they tend to be viewed as a heavy influence on metal. Led Zeppelin has always been a huge influence more on cock rock than metal. Though there’s always been something about Dazed and Confused and… Read more »

Tyson
Tyson
8 years ago

nate – 13 minutes ago  » 
Les Zeppelin can fit in just about any catagory.

They’d be #1 on bands that stole riffs off black blues musicians

dipshit
dipshit
8 years ago

hysteria is an amazing bass line and deserves to be at the top of the list. my question is why no brothers johnson – strawberry letter 23?

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 1 minute ago  » 
Can you define a little more clearly what metal is Mog.  Not sure I understand how Ticks & Leeches is metal but other Tool songs aren’t.

Power Chords, blast beats/double bass and a good bit of screaming. Of course that is greatly simplified. Extremely heavy fucking music. The Grudge “might” just barely qualify as metal. Maybe Triad as well. Nothing off Opiate, Undertow, Aenima, Salival or 10,000 Days would qualify as metal. Just not heavy enough.

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

Tyson – 2 minutes ago  » 

nate – 13 minutes ago  » 
Les Zeppelin can fit in just about any catagory.

They’d be #1 on bands that stole riffs off black blues musicians

^ truth

Tyson
Tyson
8 years ago

Mog – 3 minutes ago  » 

admin – 1 minute ago  » 
Can you define a little more clearly what metal is Mog.  Not sure I understand how Ticks & Leeches is metal but other Tool songs aren’t.

Power Chords, blast beats/double bass and a good bit of screaming. Of course that is greatly simplified. Extremely heavy fucking music. The Grudge “might” just barely qualify as metal. Maybe Triad as well. Nothing off Opiate, Undertow, Aenima, Salival or 10,000 Days would qualify as metal. Just not heavy enough.

So all the pioneering bands that were metal are what now exactly?

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

Tyson – 19 seconds ago  »  Mog – 3 minutes ago  »  admin – 1 minute ago  »  Can you define a little more clearly what metal is Mog.  Not sure I understand how Ticks & Leeches is metal but other Tool songs aren’t. Power Chords, blast beats/double bass and a good bit of screaming. Of course that is greatly simplified. Extremely heavy fucking music. The Grudge “might” just barely qualify as metal. Maybe Triad as well. Nothing off Opiate, Undertow, Aenima, Salival or 10,000 Days would qualify as metal. Just not heavy enough. So all the pioneering bands that… Read more »

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 3 minutes ago  »  <span class=”Apple-style-span” style=”color: #666666; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: #f9f7ed;”>Power Chords, blast beats/double bass and a good bit of screaming. Of course that is greatly simplified. Extremely heavy fucking music. The Grudge “might” just barely qualify as metal. Maybe Triad as well. Nothing off Opiate, Undertow, Aenima, Salival or 10,000 Days would qualify as metal. Just not heavy enough.</span> Sounds like a good definition, it’s just that you contradict yourself by claiming most of those bands don’t do that. Sounds to me like you don’t think they’re metal because you don’t like them more… Read more »

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 6 minutes ago  »  <span class=”Apple-style-span” style=”color: #666666; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: #f9f7ed;”>Power Chords, blast beats/double bass and a good bit of screaming. Of course that is greatly simplified. Extremely heavy fucking music. The Grudge “might” just barely qualify as metal. Maybe Triad as well. Nothing off Opiate, Undertow, Aenima, Salival or 10,000 Days would qualify as metal. Just not heavy enough.</span> Sounds like a good definition, it’s just that you contradict yourself by claiming most of those bands don’t do that. Sounds to me like you don’t think they’re metal because you don’t like them more… Read more »

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 2 minutes ago  » 

Uh no. Only a few of those bands use blast beats and none of them use them as a rhythmic foundation.

Blast beats is more of a grindcore thing than a metal thing. 

Actually a blast beat can be traced further back than grindcore. You can find blast beat elements in old fusion and jazz. So let’s just dumb it down to double bass. In most metal, double bass isn’t just used to augment the song, it is part of the framework of the composition.

Lizbet
Lizbet
8 years ago

Mog – 10 minutes ago  » 
Pioneering metal? Off that list? Sabbath and Slayer. Metal is a fairly young genre though. Sabbath is just classic rock now. Zeppelin is overrated classic rock. Judas Priest & Iron Maiden just make me laugh.

What is the musical theory formula for changing Sabbath from a pioneering metal band to a classic rock band?

Ns1
Ns1
8 years ago

man, I totally forgot I had a metal phase.
Firing up some megadeth now lol; cool, they actually released the album for the show I was at:
Megadeth – Rest in Peace (Live)

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

2lizbet – 22 seconds ago  »  Mog – 10 minutes ago  »  Pioneering metal? Off that list? Sabbath and Slayer. Metal is a fairly young genre though. Sabbath is just classic rock now. Zeppelin is overrated classic rock. Judas Priest & Iron Maiden just make me laugh. What is the musical theory formula for changing Sabbath from a pioneering metal band to a classic rock band? Music Theory Formula? E=MC stfu? :p teasing of course love. Evolution quite simply. Sabbath is a wonderful band. And in the late 60’s the music they were making would be considered metal for it’s… Read more »

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 19 seconds ago  »  <span class=”Apple-style-span” style=”color: #666666; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: #f9f7ed;”>Actually a blast beat can be traced further back than grindcore. You can find blast beat elements in old fusion and jazz. So let’s just dumb it down to double bass. In most metal, double bass isn’t just used to augment the song, it is part of the framework of the composition.</span> No need to dumb it down, double bass is hardly a metal invention either.  Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Megadeth all use double bass, screaming and power chords as part of the framework… Read more »

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

I love this discussion btw. Defining genre is extremely complicated. I have had a number of similar debates in literary circles. Objectivity in any discussion is damn near impossible. Defining art is ultimately a subjective exercise.

DRURY
DRURY
8 years ago

Zeppelin was never metal.

Gotta love the racist comments about white people stealing from black musicians.

To have such a narrow minded view is pitiful. I guess people don’t realize that music is something that is not owned by any person or race, and that when it does arrive in this realm, it is SHARED.

Stealing, my ass. What a douchebag. 

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 2 minutes ago  » 

You know who JP and IM influenced? Van Halen, Metallica, and Guns and Roses. 

I bet JP and IM influenced just as many metal bands.
You’re just cherry picking arguments here to suit yourself.  The fact is the only thing not metal about those bands is that you don’t like them.
Guess what – I don’t like them either, but I’m happy to call a spade a spade. 

Most arguments are, by nature, self serving in any debate. Particularly when debating a discussion that is highly subjective.

Tyson
Tyson
8 years ago

Mog – 22 minutes ago  » 
It has really only been in the last 15 years that metal has really become a viable genre.

So it only became a viable genre since 1995? Is that because of the release of Korns debut?

Are you dismissing all of the great metal albums of the 80’s?

lol

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

DRURY – 2 minutes ago  »  Zeppelin was never metal. Gotta love the racist comments about white people stealing from black musicians. To have such a narrow minded view is pitiful. I guess people don’t realize that music is something that is not owned by any person or race, and that when it does arrive in this realm, it is SHARED. Stealing, my ass. What a douchebag.  Dude I like Led Zeppelin. But do you have any idea how many lawsuits they have been in over stolen riffs? Seriously Jimmy Page is a talented guy but he “borrowed” heavily from… Read more »

ilikecheese
ilikecheese
8 years ago

stupid gay polls

Tyson
Tyson
8 years ago

DRURY – 4 minutes ago  »  Gotta love the racist comments about white people stealing from black musicians. To have such a narrow minded view is pitiful. I guess people don’t realize that music is something that is not owned by any person or race, and that when it does arrive in this realm, it is SHARED. Stealing, my ass. What a douchebag.  lol what? He did steal those riffs? What the hell are you smoking, racist? There was nothing racist about stating a fact. So I could just release my own exact same verison of Stinkfist and expect not… Read more »

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

Tyson – 2 minutes ago  » 

Mog – 22 minutes ago  » 
It has really only been in the last 15 years that metal has really become a viable genre.

So it only became a viable genre since 1995? Is that because of the release of Korns debut?
Are you dismissing all of the great metal albums of the 80’s?
lol

Korn? WTF? Christ no. I would argue that there are only a handful of “great” metal albums from the 80’s.

Tyson
Tyson
8 years ago

Mog – 26 seconds ago  »  Tyson – 2 minutes ago  »  Mog – 22 minutes ago  »  It has really only been in the last 15 years that metal has really become a viable genre. So it only became a viable genre since 1995? Is that because of the release of Korns debut? Are you dismissing all of the great metal albums of the 80’s? lol Korn? WTF? Christ no. I would argue that there are only a handful of “great” metal albums from the 80’s. It’s called sarcasm, but you dodged the important point of you claiming that… Read more »

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 2 minutes ago  » 

Most arguments are, by nature, self serving in any debate. Particularly when debating a discussion that is highly subjective.

I agree, but I’m being objective when I say your arguments contradict themselves. 

Fair, but then we obviously define metal in different ways. We have different quantifiable requirements before we will place our seal of definitive approval. So we may agree that certain elements are present in most cases, but the degree and execution of those elements are how we quantify our subjective definitions.

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

Tyson – 4 minutes ago  »  Mog – 26 seconds ago  »  Tyson – 2 minutes ago  »  Mog – 22 minutes ago  »  It has really only been in the last 15 years that metal has really become a viable genre. I was trying to be fair. Honestly I would probably cut that down to the last 10 years. Music continually evolves and as such how we define “genre” constantly changes. So it only became a viable genre since 1995? Is that because of the release of Korns debut? Are you dismissing all of the great metal albums of… Read more »

ilikecheese
ilikecheese
8 years ago

but
what
about stryper
metal from
above
ozzy
jesus loves your stuff

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

Tyson – 4 minutes ago  »  Mog – 26 seconds ago  »  Tyson – 2 minutes ago  »  Mog – 22 minutes ago  »  It has really only been in the last 15 years that metal has really become a viable genre. I was trying to be fair. Honestly I would probably cut that down to the last 10 years. Music continually evolves and as such how we define “genre” constantly changes. So it only became a viable genre since 1995? Is that because of the release of Korns debut? Are you dismissing all of the great metal albums of… Read more »

Tyson
Tyson
8 years ago

Just because something evolves or changes doesn’t change the fact what came previously can still be classified as metal.

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

Tyson – 1 minute ago  » 
Just because something evolves or changes doesn’t change the fact what came previously can still be classified as metal.

Evolution implies change. If a thing becomes something else, how it is defined MUST change as well.

Mog
Mog
8 years ago

admin – 3 minutes ago  » 
Metal: a musical genre invented in the 90s by Korn stealing lyrical style from black 80s rap bands

What do you think about moving this discussion into it’s own thread? The original purpose of the thread was to discuss Tool’s inclusion in some best of lists. We are steam rolling the thread with this genre discussion. I must say this is probably the most enjoyable discussion I have had at Fourtheye.

petemasterpete
8 years ago

Tyson – 1 hour ago  » 

nate – 13 minutes ago  » 
Les Zeppelin can fit in just about any catagory.

They’d be #1 on bands that stole riffs off black blues musicians

+1 for sure… I like ’em, but the truth hurts