F O U R T H E Y E

Forgive me if this was posted elsewhere... i did a quick search and didnt find anything, and i didnt really know where to place this. So, thus, new topic.

So we all know Tool has their music on streaming services now. And i believe there were rumblings that some (all?) of the songs were "remastered" for streaming? Maybe this is jsut hearsay but on to my point.

Listen to the intro to Reflection on your CD version, then listen to the intro on any streaming service. The drums are CLEARLY different. They moved sounds around, little tom hits were added/removed, rimshots spots were swapped. its quite odd as to why this was done but its pretty damn obvious that the songs are different at the beginning. Take a listen to this short youtube clip. Left channel is CD version, Right channel is streaming version.



Discuss

I believe Justin confirmed all the digital music is remastered on that Ernie Ball podcast

Shed523 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:44 pm I believe Justin confirmed all the digital music is remastered on that Ernie Ball podcast

i literally just heard that as i am listening to the podcast and i came here to update the post, but you beat me to it.

regardless, its odd they didnt only remaster the tracks, but they altered them. no?

xZ1mM3r wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:51 pm

Shed523 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:44 pm I believe Justin confirmed all the digital music is remastered on that Ernie Ball podcast

i literally just heard that as i am listening to the podcast and i came here to update the post, but you beat me to it.

regardless, its odd they didnt only remaster the tracks, but they altered them. no?

Perfect timing! I would have to bust out the iPod touch and back listen to compare but honestly I haven’t stopped listening to Fear Inoculum. Is that bad?

I am glad the silence after Triad was gone, but I don't get the alternate division between disposition and reflection.

So the streaming Tool songs are remastered and will never be released physically (for now) making the old cd's collectors items.

This fucking band.

I can't hear the difference but hey pleased if my old cd's have increased in value.

Interesting! I knew something was up when they released everything! Something was different I thought. I especially heard the difference on the Undertow. I used to have all the albums uploaded on Spotify. I heard a couple songs played back to back and heard something but couldn't place it.I've removed my uploads since then so didn't think about it again. I heard the Justin podcast but still didn't click. Now it makes sense.

I was just listening to remastered Eulogy, holy FUCK new drums at the start.

I've listened to this song a million times so I know if it had changed.

tys0n wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:27 am I was just listening to remastered Eulogy, holy FUCK new drums at the start.

I've listened to this song a million times so I know if it had changed.

Time stamp? Sounds the same to me.

xZ1mM3r wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:35 pm Forgive me if this was posted elsewhere... i did a quick search and didnt find anything, and i didnt really know where to place this. So, thus, new topic.

So we all know Tool has their music on streaming services now. And i believe there were rumblings that some (all?) of the songs were "remastered" for streaming? Maybe this is jsut hearsay but on to my point.

Listen to the intro to Reflection on your CD version, then listen to the intro on any streaming service. The drums are CLEARLY different. They moved sounds around, little tom hits were added/removed, rimshots spots were swapped. its quite odd as to why this was done but its pretty damn obvious that the songs are different at the beginning. Take a listen to this short youtube clip. Left channel is CD version, Right channel is streaming version.



Discuss

Don't hear the difference. On the cd version there's also music moving around. I listened to an old youtube video and the version on Spotify with headphone. I just can't hear it. Can you be more specific?

Raffa D wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:28 am

Don't hear the difference. On the cd version there's also music moving around. I listened to an old youtube video and the version on Spotify with headphone. I just can't hear it. Can you be more specific?

The difference is that the drum part is one measure off. The opening drum pattern basically repeats every two bars, with the distinction being a accent on counts &-a of beat 4 (16th notes 4-e-&-a) in the first bar that leads into the second bar, where the second bar has resting after the snare hits on beat 4.

On the album release the drum pattern begins with bar one having the accents and bar two having the accents. The remastered version flips this.

However, everything is the same length and at some point before the last measure before the bass (which is accurately place including the percussive pad hits) it is corrected. There are three instances of the little percussive pad click on the album version accenting 16th notes after beat 4. On the remaster, in the area the loop is corrected, they leave the second one out.

The intro is 8 measures long. The percussive accents occur in measures 3, 6, and 8. The remastered version looks like 4, 8, where it is late in bar 4 and omitted in 6, the part is back to normal at bar 7.

damn that was well put

Interesting. I've made a little visual comparison (don't mind my weird way of naming the measures): The red bits are unique to the song version.
Looks like the 2019 version adds a new first drum measure, cuts the sixth original drum measure and moves everything else around a bit, including Justins bass scratches.

So difficult for me to hear. I want to, but i can't or don't understand. I flip every 5 seconds from one to another version, but i can't hear the difference.
Maybe if you guys mention time frames.

And also why would Tool make such a slight difference?

Same for me. I don't hear the difference.

Unless there are other errors I haven't heard in the song, it is only the first 20 seconds where the drums are screwed up. I have no idea how something like this could happen, especially if they were simple remasters. The difference is that every two bar grouping is off until measure 7. The drum beat starts on an iteration that normally takes place on repeat into the song.

Raffa D wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:07 am So difficult for me to hear. I want to, but i can't or don't understand. I flip every 5 seconds from one to another version, but i can't hear the difference.
Maybe if you guys mention time frames.

You can hear the difference by comparing just the first four seconds of the song on the 2019 and 2001 version seperately. Not the Youtube mash-up, that can be a bit confusing. The only difference is in the subtle variations at the end of the drum pattern.

The 2001 version ends the first drum pattern with two tom hits (around 00:02) that aren't there in the 2019 version.
The 2019 version has the same tom hits and the end of the second drum pattern (around 00:04), which is actually the first drum pattern of the 2001 version. Everything after that is shifted back by one drum pattern repetition on the 2019 version, until around 00:18 when the 2019 version omits one repetition of the drum pattern that only exists on the 2001 version.

Raffa D wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:07 am And also why would Tool make such a slight difference?

My guess is more by accident than intentional. Maybe they did a last minute edit back in 2001, but the mix already went to mastering before that.
So when they remastered the songs for streaming they started with the version that was the most current "before mastering".

I would imagine they mixed up the fills to showcase the live variations, as Danny definitely has shown with Descending that he'll throw in the 'ch-ch-clap's whenever.

And of course they knew the fans would dissect it, too.

Amazon streaming all TOOL in Ultra HD as of Tuesday. Sounds pretty good in my car. I have a trial run of 90 days free. So we'll see. I'm already using it more than Spotify.