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Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:25 am
by Boldizar
My friend noticed the same thing about the lack of dynamics and I have to say he is right. He chalked it up to compression, and with Bob, I thought Vicarious was good example of this as well. The intro starts off peak loud, then we are supposed to slam into the main riff, but there is no more 'louder' for it to go.

For comparison, listen to the Grudge or even the Patient, then Fear Inoculum. There are really no ups and downs there that don't involve silence or inference on what dynamics might normally be. It doesn't sound bad, it is just... something.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:30 am
by bob
im assuming if it sold in record times/numbers they prob will do one more run of it for sure. a standard release is coming too it looks. wasnt sure what was up but i guess thats the case even though people hardly buy Cds anyway.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:35 am
by rshforgothispw
Not sure if it’s intensional or not but exactly halfway in the song is when Maynard sings mitosis

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:41 am
by ms2r
Boldizar wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:25 am
My friend noticed the same thing about the lack of dynamics and I have to say he is right. He chalked it up to compression, and with Bob, I thought Vicarious was good example of this as well. The intro starts off peak loud, then we are supposed to slam into the main riff, but there is no more 'louder' for it to go.

For comparison, listen to the Grudge or even the Patient, then Fear Inoculum. There are really no ups and downs there that don't involve silence or inference on what dynamics might normally be. It doesn't sound bad, it is just... something.
Ah, the loudness war. Back in 2006 someone at tdn did a comparision between all albums and the differences existed but were very small.

Personally I think FI has one of the best organic flows. Dynamics seem fine to me.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:46 am
by Boldizar
One of the benefits of doing dynamics with compression is that you don't have those times where you go "Oh it gets louder here, gotta turn it down a tad" or "I can't hear anything in this part without turning it up", so it isn't like it is done without reason. 10,000 Days doesn't necessarily sound bad either, it is just loud or louder the entire time.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:16 am
by Shed523
rshforgothispw wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:35 am
Not sure if it’s intensional or not but exactly halfway in the song is when Maynard sings mitosis
5:10! Great find seams to coincidental not to be intentional!

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:28 am
by earthrocker
:D

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:32 am
by Shed523
Browsing over the guitar tab looks like this will be a fun one to learn! Been awhile since I’ve played the electric, time to dust that sucker off. The acoustic just won’t do. Wonder if Adam uses a volume pedal?

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:58 am
by rshforgothispw
Shed523 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:32 am
Browsing over the guitar tab looks like this will be a fun one to learn! Been awhile since I’ve played the electric, time to dust that sucker off. The acoustic just won’t do. Wonder if Adam uses a volume pedal?
It is fun to play but you have to check out descending! Such a fun song.

I think he uses knob swells. Definitely has a wah pedal and I’m curious to see if he uses a delay pedal? I don’t know how he gets it on and off so effortlessly

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:24 am
by Danny
rshforgothispw wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:58 am
Shed523 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:32 am
Browsing over the guitar tab looks like this will be a fun one to learn! Been awhile since I’ve played the electric, time to dust that sucker off. The acoustic just won’t do. Wonder if Adam uses a volume pedal?
It is fun to play but you have to check out descending! Such a fun song.

I think he uses knob swells. Definitely has a wah pedal and I’m curious to see if he uses a delay pedal? I don’t know how he gets it on and off so effortlessly
I think he uses a Boss DD3 delay.
I don’t know if he uses a volume pedal, the intro to FI has a lot of volume fluctuations, i’m sure he’s a wizard with the volume knob but we’ll see when they play the song live.
I changed the strings in my LP and started practicing FI, it’s really cool, not hard.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:32 pm
by earthrocker

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:57 pm
by Boldizar
Well they don't charge shipping, so I got it from them per their worldwide order encouragement.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:30 pm
by myke
Boldizar wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:25 am
My friend noticed the same thing about the lack of dynamics and I have to say he is right. He chalked it up to compression, and with Bob, I thought Vicarious was good example of this as well. The intro starts off peak loud, then we are supposed to slam into the main riff, but there is no more 'louder' for it to go.

For comparison, listen to the Grudge or even the Patient, then Fear Inoculum. There are really no ups and downs there that don't involve silence or inference on what dynamics might normally be. It doesn't sound bad, it is just... something.
Someone should do a remaster just to show the difference. This song is seriously lacking dynamics

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:43 pm
by ms2r
No, it isn't.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:02 pm
by Danny
ms2r wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:43 pm
No, it isn't.
This!

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:06 pm
by children
Some people want all music to sound exactly the same. The new song sounds incredible. The album will be incredible. If you don't like it, then go listen to the music you do consider to be mixed and mastered to your liking.

I am of the opinion that 10,000 Days is a fucking masterpiece, by the way. It is not a fact that it is inferior to Lateralus or Aenima. That is your opinion among a plethora of other negative, shitty opinions that you cynical fucks have. Have a good day!

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:12 pm
by Boldizar
children wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:06 pm

I am of the opinion that 10,000 Days is a fucking masterpiece, by the way. It is not a fact that it is inferior to Lateralus or Aenima. That is your opinion among a plethora of other negative, shitty opinions that you cynical fucks have. Have a good day!
So your opinion is better? If it is all opinion, why are you so angry?

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:21 pm
by M0G
children wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:06 pm
Some people want all music to sound exactly the same. The new song sounds incredible. The album will be incredible. If you don't like it, then go listen to the music you do consider to be mixed and mastered to your liking.

I am of the opinion that 10,000 Days is a fucking masterpiece, by the way. It is not a fact that it is inferior to Lateralus or Aenima. That is your opinion among a plethora of other negative, shitty opinions that you cynical fucks have. Have a good day!
Take a deep breath there buddy. Literally no one has said 10,000 Days is a bad album. No one has even been remotely negative about it. Their opinions are not negative, shitty, or cynical. Most people in the Tool community think Lateralus and Aenima are Tool's best albums. That is not putting down 10,000 Days. You are taking posts personally because you think 10,000 Days is on the same level as Lateralus and Aenima. There is nothing wrong with that opinion either, however, rather than crying about shitty opinions, why not take part in the discussion and explain why you think 10,000 Days is at that level? What about the album works well for you? What aspects about the mix and the compositions do you enjoy the most?

I do agree Boldizar is a little over the top with his production analysis at times but at least he is presenting logical opinions and reasons for his opinions. He is not shitting on 10,000 Days or Fear Inoculum. I haven't seen hardly anyone around here say anything negative about Fear Inoculum. Most love the song. Some like the song but would prefer some changes in the mix or lyrical style but almost universally around here everyone seems to be enjoying the song.

You need to learn how to separate your love for Tool from your personal feelings. When someone criticizes Tool they are not attacking you. Why in the world would a differing opinion about an album bother you on any level?

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:30 pm
by myke
Hey I love the song, it's great. But it is mixed loud, the beginning is almost just as loud as the heavy parts. just compare The Patient, Lateralus, Schism, The Grudge, for quick reference.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:33 pm
by Boldizar
myke wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:30 pm
Hey I love the song, it's great. But it is mixed loud, the beginning is almost just as loud as the heavy parts. just compare The Patient, Lateralus, Schism, The Grudge, for quick reference.
You think it is loud? huh. I think it does have uniformity, but it is much more separated, defined, and more middle ground that the loudness of Days. Days was still clear, it was just turned to 10 and there wasn't a lot of space between the sounds. It is cool to hear them do a second album with someone and have it improve from the one before it again.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:38 pm
by ziggy23

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:30 pm
by M0G
Boldizar wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:33 pm
myke wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:30 pm
Hey I love the song, it's great. But it is mixed loud, the beginning is almost just as loud as the heavy parts. just compare The Patient, Lateralus, Schism, The Grudge, for quick reference.
You think it is loud? huh. I think it does have uniformity, but it is much more separated, defined, and more middle ground that the loudness of Days. Days was still clear, it was just turned to 10 and there wasn't a lot of space between the sounds. It is cool to hear them do a second album with someone and have it improve from the one before it again.
I agree with you on this. It is loud but very crisp high attention to detail. I love 10,000 Days and I don't think Joe did a bad job at all but this feels like a logical progression production wise. As you said taking the sound Tool wants and Joe's style and pushing the production to a higher level.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:33 pm
by myke
Boldizar wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:33 pm
myke wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:30 pm
Hey I love the song, it's great. But it is mixed loud, the beginning is almost just as loud as the heavy parts. just compare The Patient, Lateralus, Schism, The Grudge, for quick reference.
You think it is loud? huh. I think it does have uniformity, but it is much more separated, defined, and more middle ground that the loudness of Days. Days was still clear, it was just turned to 10 and there wasn't a lot of space between the sounds. It is cool to hear them do a second album with someone and have it improve from the one before it again.
Yea, like your friend said its compressed like like crazy. For instance the chorus is a bit underwhelming to me because there is barely a volume change from the bridge . Take the chorus from The Patient or Lateralus for example

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:45 pm
by liz
children wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:06 pm
Some people want all music to sound exactly the same. The new song sounds incredible. The album will be incredible. If you don't like it, then go listen to the music you do consider to be mixed and mastered to your liking.

I am of the opinion that 10,000 Days is a fucking masterpiece, by the way. It is not a fact that it is inferior to Lateralus or Aenima. That is your opinion among a plethora of other negative, shitty opinions that you cynical fucks have. Have a good day!
I'm on your page Children. 10,000 Days is a great album that I put on to in preference to Lateralus and Aenima at times.

Thing is people (I was going to say boys but thought the better of it) like to list things, score them out of ten, measure them, weigh them and then have their opinion win a prize.

They are not really negative or cynical, they are competing. And in this particular competition consensus has already been reached that 10,000 Days doesn't win the ratings war. Can't say that it makes a difference to my enjoyment of that album but I'm imagining it does for some.

I understand the pulling apart of this new song but I am also mindful of what anyone who studied literature in high school understood that "over analyzing" a text even a beloved work can reduce and diminish its effect on you over time.

Re: Fear Inoculum

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:49 pm
by children
Not taking anything personally. Not angry. I think people are really quick to criticize based on their immediate reaction, and that reaction seems to usually be negative.

Again, that is my opinion. It's ok to have a negative opinion, even I do sometimes, but if you find yourself being disappointed constantly it has to be exhausting. Maybe, just maybe, your opinion is a fluid thing that will change later on, and maybe not, who knows.

With 10,000 Days, I don't even think of it in terms of being better or worse or how it's mixed or anything like that. People try to prove factually that it's inferior by looking at the levels and claiming it should be within a certain range or whatever, but I just go by how the music makes me feel and try to grasp what the band was going for and see what the band sees in their own work. It's a very different sounding record than anything else, and I see leaps and bounds in the bands chemistry and in the way the instruments all work together in the performances.

In that regard I think 10k is better just because the band was better at their craft. Doesn't mean it's better in every single way because obviously Lateralis is as perfect of an album as you can get. That's kind of the point of 10k to me is that it is meant to be a difficult listen.

The subject matter is the total opposite of Lateralus and the sound of the music and the flow reflects that. I mean they have an 18 minute song about death as the third track. The whole concept is about humanity having to go through darkness to survive; it wouldn't have fit the concept if it was as easy as a listen as Lateralus, which was super shiny and bright and positive for the most part.

I understand that people don't like the production and all that on 10k but the band specifically wanted to retain the dynamics between the instruments, which was somewhat lost on Lateralus in my opinion. Clearly the band wanted a less sterile sound, and yes Lateralus sounds sterile and almost too perfect and overproduced, but it works for that record. It would not have worked for 10k, so they made the right choice for it to be more raw and gritty. I think the bass and drums have more warmth and clarity on 10k, and I get the feeling that I am there in the room with them playing live.

All of Tool's albums take time to adjust because they each occupy a different space. Each album suits a certain mood. Fear Inoc will occupy its own as we already know based on the new title track, and I think this new sound is them trying to recreate their live sound even more than they ever have done before. Danny's drums sound closer to the live sound than on any other record. His snare and toms and bass drum have a very particular sound live that is very difficult to capture and they got pretty damn close to my ears.

My OPINION is that maybe our ears will need to adjust to this new foreign sound and that seeing the new songs live IN PERSON may allow our minds to tune in to a frequency above our station because sometimes our first impressions are wrong and we need to withhold judgement, which I know is extremely hard for some of us to do, isn't that right , Mog?