F O U R T H E Y E

Hotdog said

I bet anyone in their shoes would do the same fucking thing. Its their job. Sure, in between albums they only have to work a couple of hours a year, but everyone has to get paid somehow. Lamborghini's don't service themselves and pools need to be cleaned by someone.


Bullshit.  Look if you think $150 bucks was fair for the re-release, so be it.  Many others do not agree and everyone is entitled to their opinion.  But don't presume to speak for anyone about what they would or would not do with the kind of money Tool has made and is making.  I for one would never purchase a Lamborghini.  My concept of wealth is not disconnected from reality.  If I wanted to thank my fans, I would have brought the price point down massively and included significant value adds.  I would have covered my overhead certainly, but I wouldn't have been worried about making a profit if my primary goal was to thank my fans.

I am not knocking Tool for making money.  I AM saying that they should be honest about their goal.  A 5000 run re-release of a 21 year old EP that contains no new music (demos, live, etc) and some pretty artwork should not have been $150 bucks, signed or not.  That's not a thank you, rather more a FUCK YOU to a large portion of the fanbase that doesn't have the ability to fork over $150 dollars for something like this.

Adam is disconnected on some level.  Whether it be from the fiscal realities many face currently, or, as Nate mentioned, simply being out of touch with his fanbase.

Again friends, enjoy your purchases.  No one is criticizing or judging anyone for buying the re-release.  But stop trying to paint this into something it's not.  Stop making apologies and excuses to justify what is so easily discernible as ridiculous.  Just say it was worth it to you and move on.

What I WOULD fork over $150+ for is Tool's version of those Pink Floyd Immersion box sets. 

joeypants said
What I WOULD fork over $150+ for is Tool's version of those Pink Floyd Immersion box sets. 


Hell yeah.

 

mogeffingmog said 
Again friends, enjoy your purchases.  No one is criticizing or judging anyone for buying the re-release.  But stop trying to paint this into something it's not.  Stop making apologies and excuses to justify what is so easily discernible as ridiculous.  Just say it was worth it to you and move on.


 

Oops.

 

You know, you could also just say it was NOT worth it to you and move on.

 

I did.

It's funny to me that Tool would spend the time/energy/resources on something so divisive as a rereleased Opiate EP, when they have a finished Lateralus live DVD sitting in limbo, not to mention all the footage from other tours they could easily compile into something that all their fans would appreciate. That being said, I bought one.

eyechakra said
It's funny to me that Tool would spend the time/energy/resources on something so divisive as a rereleased Opiate EP, when they have a finished Lateralus live DVD sitting in limbo, not to mention all the footage from other tours they could easily compile into something that all their fans would appreciate. That being said, I bought one.


Of course we've all been speculating on this for years... it's like the holy grail... but what makes you say "a finished Lateralus live DVD"?  Very curious.

nxrm said "Keep us posted"


 

 

 

 

 

 

So- just to let you guys know, I received an email this morning stating that they changed the address on my order. Nice!

 

Ravenpig said


mogeffingmog said 
Again friends, enjoy your purchases.  No one is criticizing or judging anyone for buying the re-release.  But stop trying to paint this into something it's not.  Stop making apologies and excuses to justify what is so easily discernible as ridiculous.  Just say it was worth it to you and move on.


 

Oops.

 

You know, you could also just say it was NOT worth it to you and move on.

 

I did.


That was piss poor Raven.  You missed the point entirely.  I said no one is criticizing or judging ANYONE, meaning any other person for making their purchase.  People have, myself included, criticized TOOL over the release.  Two entirely different arguments.  I think if you were to take a poll, the vast majority of people would agree that TOOL overcharged for the Opiate re-release.  I think most would agree that there was very little value add of any kind.  Arguing over whether or not people should have purchased this is obviously pointless as it is a personal preference.  Trying to rationalize a "gift to the fans" at a $150 dollar price point with nothing but a sticker and some artwork is quite clearly an indefensible position.

 

Kittaan said


eyechakra said
It's funny to me that Tool would spend the time/energy/resources on something so divisive as a rereleased Opiate EP, when they have a finished Lateralus live DVD sitting in limbo, not to mention all the footage from other tours they could easily compile into something that all their fans would appreciate. That being said, I bought one.


Of course we've all been speculating on this for years... it's like the holy grail... but what makes you say "a finished Lateralus live DVD"?  Very curious.


 

From what my source tells me, the Lateralus live DVD has been finished and ready to be mass produced since 2003. At the time, some sort of legal troubles prevented them from releasing it. I've also been told that they have since worked all that out and are waiting for the "right time" to release it. My guess is that they aren't going to release it in its current state because we're living in the HD-era and a DVD would not do it justice. My hope is that they'll scrap it, upscale and re-edit the footage along with other-era recordings to make some kind of "ultimate live archive" but that kind of thing probably won't happen until long after the band calls it quits.

Bogart said

nxrm said "Keep us posted"


  

So- just to let you guys know, I received an email this morning stating that they changed the address on my order. Nice!

 


Excellent news Bogart. Glad to hear it.

nxrm said

Bogart said


nxrm said "Keep us posted"


  

So- just to let you guys know, I received an email this morning stating that they changed the address on my order. Nice!

 


Excellent news Bogart. Glad to hear it.


I got the same email this morning!  Relieved to know my order will not be sitting on my doorstep on a rainy day.

eyechakra said

Kittaan said


eyechakra said
It's funny to me that Tool would spend the time/energy/resources on something so divisive as a rereleased Opiate EP, when they have a finished Lateralus live DVD sitting in limbo, not to mention all the footage from other tours they could easily compile into something that all their fans would appreciate. That being said, I bought one.


Of course we've all been speculating on this for years... it's like the holy grail... but what makes you say "a finished Lateralus live DVD"?  Very curious.


 

From what my source tells me, the Lateralus live DVD has been finished and ready to be mass produced since 2003. At the time, some sort of legal troubles prevented them from releasing it. I've also been told that they have since worked all that out and are waiting for the "right time" to release it. My guess is that they aren't going to release it in its current state because we're living in the HD-era and a DVD would not do it justice. My hope is that they'll scrap it, upscale and re-edit the footage along with other-era recordings to make some kind of "ultimate live archive" but that kind of thing probably won't happen until long after the band calls it quits.


And people call me a troll.

 

mogeffingmog said

Ravenpig said


mogeffingmog said 
Again friends, enjoy your purchases.  No one is criticizing or judging anyone for buying the re-release.  But stop trying to paint this into something it's not.  Stop making apologies and excuses to justify what is so easily discernible as ridiculous.  Just say it was worth it to you and move on.


 

Oops.

 

You know, you could also just say it was NOT worth it to you and move on.

 

I did.


That was piss poor Raven.  You missed the point entirely.  I said no one is criticizing or judging ANYONE, meaning any other person for making their purchase.  People have, myself included, criticized TOOL over the release.  Two entirely different arguments.  I think if you were to take a poll, the vast majority of people would agree that TOOL overcharged for the Opiate re-release.  I think most would agree that there was very little value add of any kind.  Arguing over whether or not people should have purchased this is obviously pointless as it is a personal preference.  Trying to rationalize a "gift to the fans" at a $150 dollar price point with nothing but a sticker and some artwork is quite clearly an indefensible position.

 


I don't understand why you responded with this.  I don't disagree with most of this.

 

You say I missed your point?  Ok, fine.  My bad.  You also ignored mine.

 

I'll repeat, "you could also just say it was NOT worth it to you and move on".  That's it.  I'm not trying to start a flame war with you, you know it's not my style.  I'm not saying, I'm just saying, you know?

 

mogeffingmog said


  I for one would never purchase a Lamborghini.  My concept of wealth is not disconnected from reality.  If I wanted to thank my fans, I would have brought the price point down massively and included significant value adds.  I would have covered my overhead certainly, but I wouldn't have been worried about making a profit if my primary goal was to thank my fans.

 

 

 

Tool is a business. Fans are the consumer. Just because they are a band doesn't mean they cant make very healthy margins and live fantastic lives.

I don't believe for a second Mog that you wouldn't purchase some sort of hot car if you were sitting on millions of cash in the bank doing nothing. Cash in piles makes no one happy, its the fun things you can do with it that does! Actually, i probably could see you putting your money in to "wise savings and investments". Sheesh Homer! I say invest in hookers, they have a technique that relieves built up pressure and will make you relaxed and a better person.

 

crow011 said

eyechakra said


Kittaan said


eyechakra said
It's funny to me that Tool would spend the time/energy/resources on something so divisive as a rereleased Opiate EP, when they have a finished Lateralus live DVD sitting in limbo, not to mention all the footage from other tours they could easily compile into something that all their fans would appreciate. That being said, I bought one.


Of course we've all been speculating on this for years... it's like the holy grail... but what makes you say "a finished Lateralus live DVD"?  Very curious.


 

From what my source tells me, the Lateralus live DVD has been finished and ready to be mass produced since 2003. At the time, some sort of legal troubles prevented them from releasing it. I've also been told that they have since worked all that out and are waiting for the "right time" to release it. My guess is that they aren't going to release it in its current state because we're living in the HD-era and a DVD would not do it justice. My hope is that they'll scrap it, upscale and re-edit the footage along with other-era recordings to make some kind of "ultimate live archive" but that kind of thing probably won't happen until long after the band calls it quits.


And people call me a troll.

 


Crow, Eyechakra has very good credibility (it's not my place to provide details), and he's not trolling in the least.  

 

Interesting.  I actually have heard this in varying degrees, but to have you confirm it kind of blows me away.  I'm surprised it hasn't found its way out into the wild.  As much as I'd still like to see it as is, I agree with your assessment.  They will eventually release something, hopefully something really special, but it won't likely be until after their touring days are done.  Bums me out.   

@Raven - I know you weren't trying to start a flame war.  You are one of the most level headed cats around here.  I just disagreed with the argument you were trying to make.  Regardless, we are always good.  Like I said, I am not criticizing any one purchasing the Opiate re-release.  Different strokes for different folks.  I was speaking more to the apologist justifications being made regarding price point that simply don't add up.

 

@Hotdog - No you really don't know me at all.  Surrounding myself with things doesn't interest me.  If I had TOOL type money I would invest wisely.  Furthermore, what would make me genuinely happy would be the fact that I could take care of my close friends and family so they wouldn't have to worry about money ever again.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't indulge a bit here and there, but always within reason.  More relevant here is that we are getting off track. 

This IS about TOOL making money.  No one is saying they shouldn't reap the rewards from their work.  However, I personally find it to be in poor taste to say you are releasing a "thank you" to your fans at a price point that is not workable for a decent portion of your fan base.  This was a cash grab.  At that is FINE, but call it for what it is.

mogeffingmog said
@Raven - I know you weren't trying to start a flame war.  You are one of the most level headed cats around here.  I just disagreed with the argument you were trying to make.  Regardless, we are always good.  Like I said, I am not criticizing any one purchasing the Opiate re-release.  Different strokes for different folks.  I was speaking more to the apologist justifications being made regarding price point that simply don't add up.

 


Fair enough, brochacho!

Ravenpig said

mogeffingmog said
@Raven - I know you weren't trying to start a flame war.  You are one of the most level headed cats around here.  I just disagreed with the argument you were trying to make.  Regardless, we are always good.  Like I said, I am not criticizing any one purchasing the Opiate re-release.  Different strokes for different folks.  I was speaking more to the apologist justifications being made regarding price point that simply don't add up.

 


Fair enough, brochacho!


Mog would take his Tool type money and invest in bit-coins.

 

It's overpriced if you throw out all other factors, but honestly it's not "insane and insulting." Whether it's worth anything to any of us on an individual basis, autographs are worth money. These things being printed on quality paper/stock is worth money. And then there's the scalper factor. These are priced for the people out there that "really" want it, and that's kind of how it should be. 

 

Would I personally have liked it if they were $30 or something? Sure. There also wouldn't be any left except for ebay where they'd go for... about $150 probably. And then Tool is left barely covering the expense of the things and tons of scalpers are left making the money. I get it. If I were them, I'd probably do something similar until the day comes when we can guarantee that "fans only" get these kind of things and no way, no how will scalpers take advantage. 

it's a luxury item so whether you can afford it or not is kind of irrelevant regardless of whether Adam said it was a "thank you" to the fans or not. Belive it or not you aren't entitled to a limited edition autographed reissue of an album by a band you like. The fact that the pre-sale ones sold out immediately tells me their estimation of the worth of these things is a little more rational than angry-messageboard-Tool-fan-guy. And yeah, if they don't price in at least some of the aftermarket value then it's some guy on ebay making the difference and not the guys who actually made it in the first place.

If you don't want it, congratulations, but wearing it on your chest as a badge of honor is just sad and old. I mean, was there any price point at which Mog wouldn't be whining? That's like his entire schtick (rest assured though if he ever produced anything of value he'd stay true to the art maaaaaan).

Never have been and never will be a TA member (unless signed Lateralus or other vinyls go on sale again) so I didn't pay attention to the pre-sale shenanigans.

 

I just got done sifting through this thread from page one to now page twelve looking for a concrete release time for preparations for the 26th.  This sifting was a huge beating mostly due to peeps bitching about not having enough money to cover $150 [get a jerb you bum]. 

 

THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A RELEASE INTENDED FOR COLLECTOR'S.  I know this coming sentence will be futile but; maybe wait for a non-signed version to be price gouged ($50) before you bitch, or at least put it in the Grudge thread (as this is the  "what we know about the Opiate re-release" not the I'm a whiny little bitch who has no money to buy things from one of my favorite bands thread)

 

I only saw one mention of 10AM EST as the release time, is this the consensus?

 

What is the consensus, or what time did you feel was the release time?

Thanks for your input.

 

 

 

shut up.

I have no interest in this release. It's cool for people who are into that stuff but I'm not one of them. I want new material and nothing more. All this recent buzz is boring. But do you notice how I've been able to just... you know... not bitch? This place is on fire lately with all this arguing. How hard is it to just turn the other cheek until something of interest comes along? I haven't even read 95% of the posts that have been made recently, but I check the site multiple times a day. It's that simple.